THE battle for the hearts, minds and votes of America's black voters begins in earnest this morning in Selma, Alabama, where Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton will remember and salute the civil rights movement, giving simultaneous speeches at two churches no more than 300 yards apart.
But the campaign for the Democratic nomination for president is already becoming unseemly as each of the leading candidates accuses the other of playing dirty.
The Clinton campaign demanded that Obama disavow Hollywood billionaire David Geffen, who is raising money for the senator, after he complained that although "everybody in politics lies", the Clintons "do it with such ease, it's troubling".
This, Clinton complained, was "the politics of personal destruction", prompting Obama to note that the Clintons had no problem with Geffen when he raised money for them.
Obama laughed off the suggestion that he return Geffen's money, thus demonstrating for the first time that he was prepared to play hard ball with the Clintons.
Last week rumours swept through Washington suggesting that James Carville, a former strategist for Bill Clinton, was deliberately talking up the prospect of an Al Gore candidacy to deflect attention away from Obama and quieten the buzz surrounding the Illinois senator.
African-American voters are a vital and reliable Democratic constituency whose support Clinton had counted on as part of a smooth accession to the party's presidential nomination.
Obama's declaration that he would seek the presidency himself, after serving just two years in the Senate, changed that calculation.
Actor George Clooney told Newsweek magazine that Obama had the ability to offer a vision for America that was reminiscent of the Kennedys.
Obama, Clooney said, is "as good as Bobby late in his career and Jack from early on".
Obama has attracted extraordinary crowds - unprecedented in recent American political history - wherever he has travelled since announcing his candidacy: in Austin, Texas, last month more than 20,000 spectators came to see him speak. If Clinton is a celebrity, Obama is a rock star.
As recently as January, a Washington Post poll found that Clinton had the support of 60% of black Democratic voters compared with just 20% for Obama. The Illinois senator's star power and impact on the race have been startling, however, and a new poll this week gave Obama an 11-point lead among black voters as his share of their vote has increased to 44%, while Clinton's has been almost halved to 33%.
Obama's rise utterly contradicts that proposition, ensuring that the contest for the party's nomination will be long, bitter and expensive.
Clinton's hopes of emulating George W Bush's 2000 campaign, which also relied on the "inevitability" strategy, have not survived the winter.
Although Clinton still leads among all Democratic voters, her lead has been halved from 24% to 12% in just a few weeks. Momentum is on Obama's side.
Although he has been on the national stage for a matter of just a few months, 70% of black voters already have a favourable impression of Obama.
The suggestion, happily spread by Clinton surrogates and supporters, that Obama "is not black enough" has failed to catch fire despite the best efforts of black activists such as Al Sharpton. That theory rested on the fact that since Obama's mother is white and his father was from Kenya, the senator's background is scarcely typical of the American black experience.
And last night it emerged Obama's ancestors - albeit many generations distant - may have owned slaves. An amateur genealogical researcher traced Obama's great-great-great-great-grandfather and discovered he owned two slaves in Kentucky, according to reports.
Undeterred, Obama will be the keynote speaker this morning at the Brown Chapel AME Church in Selma, where civil rights activists gathered in 1965 for a protest march to the Alabama state capital, Montgomery.
The march became an iconic symbol of the civil rights struggle after the 600 marchers were attacked with clubs and tear gas by the police.
At the same time as Obama speaks, Clinton will address worshippers at the First Baptist Church, just a few hundred yards away.
Although the Clinton campaign denies trying to "bigfoot" Obama, the seriousness with which they are taking him is demonstrated by the fact that Bill Clinton will also be present.
The former president made a last-minute change to his schedule to travel to Alabama, where he is to be inducted into the Hall of Fame at the National Voting Rights Museum.
Bill Clinton remains enormously popular with African-American voters and may prove to be his wife's most effective spokesman among the black community.
An Obama spokesman played down the significance of the Clinton campaign's attempt to steal Obama's thunder.
"It's an important event," he said. "The more folks who commemorate and pay attention to it, the better."
Ron Paul is theeeeeee only guy for the job.
...
..the rest are bought and paid for :)
You've got my vote Barack!
Posturing, jockeying, it's in the timing.
Our American friends can correct me if i am wrong,but there doesn't seem a hope in hell of the southern states voting for a black candidate no matter what. Their mentallity seems to be stuck in the pre civil war era.
I would be interested in what %tage the southern states make in the total voting figures, anyone know?.
#1--i agree, the problem Ron Paul has will always have, is no notoriety.
if he was really serious
about becoming President, he would work towards changing that. sad, for he is what this country needs.
#4--jim lad--tell ya what.
...
i'll post the 1/2 of Barack
that's white explain why he won't win the South or the North. he has virtually no experience in foreign policy , only 3yrs on the National stage as US Senator. before that it was all local politics.
he has bought into the idea that because he is a flamboyant exceptional speaker, he is Presidential material. the voters(dem's moderates) want more this time whether you like it or not they want someone strong on foreign policy . these same voters voted for bubba clinton
because he spoke w/a silvery tongue won't be tricked again.
Barack doesn't have the majority black vote, no matter what this article says, for many have spoken publicly that he isn't experienced enough for '08, he should wait.
so, jim lad, no matter what side of Barack you choose, 1/2-black or 1/2-white, both will lose..
...
...
when exactly is the vote?
#6 Sandy, USA
Thanks for your response, so will the south not vote for him purely on experience or lack of, or because he is black, Do the southern states still have a hang up about black people or is that an unfair portrayal and what proportion of the total vote in USA does the south make up.
I rely on you and other Americans for background on him as i had not heard of him until recently.
Thanks again
7. Dragomir
Tuesday November 4th, 2008
I know you can't vote but can we count on your support?
#6 - I agree.
It is also worth noting that on PBS radio here (pro liberal radio for those not familiar with it) - I listened intently to an interview with prominent 'black leaders' who were discussing Obama Barack - one of the many things they did NOT like about him was that he is bringing out a lot of white folks at his campaign rallies, and if the white folks like him that much we don't - okay ...
...
...
...
.. makes sense doesn't it?
So are
white folks' supposed to like him or not? If we don't like him we are racist, if we do like him then African Americans don't like it. No win no win situation.
Jim Lad - I wouldn't say that racism is solely a problem in the southern states or with non-whites. Not from my experience.
Sandy is absolutely correct - Americans want someone strong on Foreign policy, hopefully that will happen.
George Clooney can liken Barack to the Kennedy's but I fear he is resting on supposed 'good looks' rather than on his ability to make it as a competent and strong leader. The model poses of Barack on every other magazine you pick up here proves that. Handsome yes, but just because you have a pretty face .
..
#9 - now George, you know fine well that illegals can't vote - that's the Democrats 'thang' - silly!
jim lad, when was the last time you visited the southern states? the 1900's?
lol!
it really pains me to see people propagate this myth that the south is all hicks/rednecks/racists.
I was born and raised in Texas, schooled alongside all races and creeds - and take offense to your narrow-minded, un-informed viewpoint.
America has made leaps and strides against racism.
We've come so far, that its in the backswing. The Black Panther party is as racist as ever, as-is the throwbacks to the Nation of Islam (who will tell you that whitey is still trying to keep the black man down..
.P Diddy and the other thousand Gangsta rap megastars seems to indicate otherwise, eh?)
We have a congressional BLACK caucus, for example - no whites allowed.
the old civil rights leaders of yesterday are realizing their dreams of a 'color-blind society' - and worrying now, that when that happens - they'll be out of a job, and their advocacy.
Barack is awesome in that he is the epitome of that testimony. Half of him came from a Slave-owner, the other a Kenyan.
This is why Rev.Sharpton, and other civil rights leaders have their collective panties in a wad.
It would be an awful sin to be forgivin the ignorance/mistakes of our ancestors - to appreciate the fact that people have and can grow alot since the 1800's.
btw - isn't propogating a falacy about a peoples (in this case, southerners) inherintly racist?
9. George W.
Bush, Washington, DC
I've got finnking under my spell, let me know if you need help with that numpty.
#36 Sandy, an excellant response and explaination.
#6 jim lad, Sandy gave you an excellant answer and what I would concur with but I think you are thinking about the racial side of the question.
I would say that 20 to 30 years ago probably not. Today I would say very possible but how probable it is I have some doubts. If he plays the racial card defiently not.
However he could direct his campaign ot many middle class. First of all he has to win the primary and Clintons know all the dirty tatics plus have many friends in the media. I would not be surprised at all if the democratic party and the media are using Obama to stir up interest and make their convention exciting .
Let's go back to your question about Civil War mentality. First I want to state that I was not raised with any bigatory against the Aferican-Americans or the Native-American. Remember what I am stating here are the facts as I know them.
In school one is taught that the Civil War was about slavery. While it was an issue, it wasn't the main issue. It was over the 10th amendment fo the constitution.
That is the one that give states rights. When the founding fathers wrote the constitution there were two items that led to the Civil War. States rights, the states didn't want an all powerful central government.
The other was the question of slavery. The 10th amendment was to suppose to guarantee state rights and slavery was to continue unitl I believe 1829, not sure about that date. That was to appease the aristocratic south, the slave holders who controlled the power and money.
The main native nationally of the aristocratic shouth was English. The others were mostly Scot-Irish and German. I posted about them earlier.
While the North campaigned against slavery they had their own kind of slavery and some Northern states did have slavery. Now it is not well known but the aristocratic south would not purchase farm goods from the Scot-Irish farms but would import it from the North. The aristocratic population was for succession and let's say the common citizen really had no opinon but they had no power.
The turning point was in Tennessee. The Western half was populated by slave holders and wanted to succeed. The Easthern half was populated mostly by Scot-Irish were not and the state remained in the union until the federal government sent troops into Tennessee.
The population of the eastern half of the state saw that as a violation of states rights, in other words they violated the 10th amendment. As a result the common citizen remembering the Highland Clearance, they were taught that, and Londonderry and religious bigatory that their ancesters suffered and they were in some extend then joined with the successionist. Those common citizens didn't own slaves
(cont.
) nor did most of them ever see one. President Lincoln didn't intend to free the slaves, in fact he didn't free them until it was both a political necessary and politically feasable. Then it extended to the states that the union had conquered.
The slaves in Deleware were not freeded unitl 1865. As for what you call the Civil War mentality, I would say you are misguided there. The old south was gone for good.
Many of the aristocratic southerners still had power and wasn't about to let the free slaves have freedom. The common people saw them as competitors. Now the reconstruction period was burtal and the federal troops were determined to punish the south and to make sure that the ex-slaves were given their freedom, how sincere each troop comander was is very questionable.
This can go deep into history but will stop there. I am sure you can see where this would lead to. Let's just say that the aristocratic south didn't want the ex-slaves to have the freedom and power they had.
The and I will say it, Scot-Irish weren't liked by the aristocratric south and saw the ex-slaves not only as competitors but had the federal government protecting them. To them it was another Highland Clearance and Londonderry again. Result I am sure you know.
They don't have what you call Civil War mentality, what they have the love of freedom and believe that the 10th amendment has been attacked to the point that is is useless. My feelings are; I appold the Aferican-Americans for how they had suffered and how they generally conducted themselfs. Rev.
Martin Luther King was the right person at the right time. Yes, we still have bigatory but we are working onit. It will never disappear as long as humans can think but at least we won't see people of another race or beliefs as a threat.
Now I have a two questions for you or anyone else just for the fun of it. 1. We all know that the burning cross is a symbol for the hated KKK, but how many know the original symbol and use of a burning cross.
Scots should know that answer. 2. How many of you know that England shipped 1,000 Scots to the Colony of Georgia as slaves.
As for Senator Obama, is he presents a good platform he has a chance but that platform will be dictated by the party.
Voting. Most voters here today just look at the spot ads (propaganda) seen repeatily on TV.
They don't take the time to really look at the issues and what the candidate proposes to solve them. Sad state of affairs.
#9, aha, thanks.
I just find it amusingly stupid to see people get agitated now over a political event which is over 20 months away.
#8--jimlad--- so will the south not vote for him purely on experience or lack of, or because he is black ..
...
i thought i addressed that!! if they won't vote for the 1/2/white-Barack, because of non-experience, why would they vote for the
1/2/black-Barack w/no experience?
understood?
if what your trying to do is draw me into a rascial issue..
...
..it aint gonna work!
!! but i'm afraid Barack w/the help of his new-found friends in Hollywood, will eventually get around to that.
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...
..
#6 sandy
I stand by your greater knowledge of the political will of the American citizen - I hadn't heard of Obama until recently and I can't argue with your knowledge of his inexperience.
Can't see how his weakness in foreign policy is a barrier though - the present incumbent didn't know where half the places were, never mind try to deal with them!!!
! :-)
#14--Condi---please talk to Finnking , for he just wuv's you sooo much he is a great guy..
...
.i don't care to label people, but i think he's a bit of a socialist..
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so he'll be a challenge...
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be gentle...
#9--George W Bush...
Mr. President, might you acknowledge #20-JG, remind him that you know exactly where fife is?
hi, JG!
:)))))
Afternoon, sandy (what makes you think I'm a him ?). :-)
Aoda #15/16 long posts, but interesting and worth the read.
Esp about Tenn. (American mum's family was from there; they were successionists, for the most part)
Dragomir#17..
.it's both a comedy and a tragedy!
JG, yer confusin everyone!
...
jest remind 'em ya like them french blokes wearin those nice rugby jerseys!:)
22. sandy
Does JG not know where Fife is?
I do, as I'm one of the few US presidents that have actually spent time in Scotland. When I think of the Kingdom of Fife I naturally think of Kirkcaldy because it's a silly name and it's on several road signs all around the area.
I claim Scottish heritage as do 75% of all former US presidents.
Washington himself a Scot surrounded himself by Scots when he made appointments. Robert Livingston swore him into office, Knox was his Secretary of War, Hamilton was his secretary of treasury, and the list goes on on with more notable Scots.
#7 Dragomir If you mean the general elect which is when the citizens elect the electorial college it is held in November.
That is another story. Before television it went like this. Early in the year each state would hold primaries, still do, where one can vote for who they want as a canidate for a particular party.
EG. If you are registered with a certain party, you would vote for who you want to run for president. After the primary elections the winners or ones that won't conceed will scramble with the convention delegates to get their vote.
The democrates hold their convention first and the repbulicans second. Just because a person won the most primaries doesn't mean that they have the nomination locked up unless it is by an overwhelming majority. After the the parties select their platform and mominee the mominee selects who they want for vice president.
They will choose one that will balance the party ticket. EG. A Westener will choose an Eastener.
The convention deligates will vote on his choice but that is just to make it legal. Then the campaign starts with the general election in November. With the advent of televison and big money the wanabes start earlier to gain a known name, what they stand for, get support within the party and most of all raise money and lots of it.
Televison is an expensive way to advertise. As for the electorial college I don't partically like it. As you know Gore got the popular vote but not the electorial vote, glad of that.
Also JFK didnot get the popular vote but did get the electorial vote, glad of that always thought Nixon was a crook. that is it in a nutshell just to give you an idea of how it works. The general election isn't set by date but day.
I believe like Sandy says it will be Nov. 4, 2008 but actually it is held on the first Tuesday of November. As for foreign policy that was thrust on us after WWII and reinforced after the USSR collapsed.
Now big business is pushing globial and so is the UN. I would say that the average citizen would be just as glad to see each country to go about their business without any outside interference. Sad to say those days are gone weither we like it or not.
I am not saying that we should be isolationist and not help when help is needed but no country should stick their noses into another's country's business. Yes, I know about Africa and their problems and some countries are in the same predictament and need help but not told how to run their country. That is walking a thin wire.
The general election is actually held on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. So, if the first of November was a Tuesday, the election would be the following Tuesday.
The next presidential election is a long way away and a lot can and will happen by then.
Foreign policy experience is not something that many presidential candidates have. However next time around most of us would like a president with an IQ in triple digits and the ability to speak in coherent sentences. It's much, much too soon to declare who will vote for whom.
#24 Lanna
Hi. How are you today? :-) We are braving wind and heavy rain just now.
I saw the other day you are quickly picking up the local slang, calling young hooligans wee neds !!!
!! Scotland play Ireland on Saturday with the French game the following week - I'll be watching THAT!
!!!
!!!
!!!
All those thighs!!
I feel quite sorry for Obama, having read some the posts above.
He's half black so the white people won't vote for him AND he's half white so the black people won't vote for him!
#12 Southerner
I asked if it was an unfair portrayal and you seem to imply that it was which is all i asked.
A couple of things you can put in your stetson, i am sure you will wear one is, i was in Texas in San Antonio last xmas the one before and the one before and 6 before that as my daughter and son-in-law live and work there and we go every xmas, but my American family are not political animals and have no intrest and you sign of silly english now that upsets me, my capital is Edinburgh in Scotand and if you can find a good map you may be able to locate it.
When was the last time you were out of America
#15 Aoda
I was brought up in the understanding that the civil war was about slavery but i am glad you seem to dispell that. Perhaps i watched to much Hollywood, but then that was an export of USA. I found your post refreshingly interesing and am still studying the content but thank you for the time you must have spent compiling it.
I intend to post Sandy because she has misunderstood my motives completely thanks again
#18 sandy.
Let me say i was not trying to draw you into a racist arguament and if it came over like that i am truely sorry.Our two countries politcal systems are so different we need input from the people who know it best I have a daughter and son-in -law living in the states they are both Scots by the way,but are not remotely interested in politics so i was looking ( see my response #29 ) to people who should know best.
Just a small snatch about what i am about.I serve on the NEC of a large union and my portfolio is that of anti bullying and anti racism so with that you may know better where i am coming from. I did enjoy your answers in spite of the misunderstanding which was my fault, as you Americans say have a nice day
Hi JG #28 What can I say, ya'll have a great way of sayin some things!
! :) Enjoy the rugby, I've missed the games, as our telly is 'down for the count'..
.(you've actually met an American without a television!) but I'm hoping my friend is taping them.
Right about the whole black/white issue; ideally it's the person who's the best suited for the job...
but then you wonder about all the special interests, etc...
I tend not to wade too heavily into the whole political realm, and just try to vote my conscience
btb..weather sounds terrible, stay warm!
! It's nice here today, but soon it will be blistering hot, and I'll be the one tryin to hold my temper! ;)
jim lad #30 Aoda was spot on about the States' rights issues, and the average white non-slave owning farmers.
Lincoln may have freed the slaves, but he was all for them going to the newly formed Liberia. Blacks fought on both sides, newly arrived Europeans, Irish, and British, who fought for the North, were reported as saying they were 'going to save America from the Americans'
I think, only about 10% of the Southerners were the large plantation style slave-owners, but I do think a majority of the people, whether for slavery or no, were against Federal intrusion. Feelings/memories were still there, generationally, from the Am Rev War.
East Tenn in particular as many were from the Watauga Association, Battle of Kings Mountain (Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, etc)
You've picked the better part of the year to visit Texas, I hope your family is staying cool come summer time! ..
.good reply in #29
#32 Lanna
:-) I remember now I saw your name after I posted re the PMS problem for HC on that other board!!
Hope things don't become too uncomfortable for you - I'm snuggling up to the radiator!
Personally, I would like someone with a brain to lead my country - the best man (or woman) for the job. I think it's also better to have someone who has perhaps run a big business in charge of the treasury, a person with a background in law to be in charge of the Justice Dept.
, etc.. Just because s person has a politics degree doesn't mean they are going to be good at the practical side of things.
!
I think the best thing for politics would be to get rid of the politicians, and vote in someone who's had to work for a living, and who has a brain (and no special interests)!!
and while I'm making out my wish list...
.. :)
Will this article influence any posters vote?
#23--JG--sorry for that!! i consider all post's that aren't specific gal or guy names to be a him .
it's probably the gal in me!:)) better than the
he/she/it..
.approach..
..shall it be,
she/her/that-broad:), in future post's then?
?
#31--Jim Lad--thank you!!
perhaps i read too much into your post, my apology...
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...
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#36 Lanna
Yep, that comments board gave me a lot of laughs the other day - I think AJ was beginning to feel overwhelmed!! Shame work ruined your chance to join in!
I agree with you re your comment about politicians - I think it was that great philosopher Billy Connolly who said that the desire to be a politician should ban you from ever becoming one!!
#38 sandy
Yes - anything you like!
I never said I was a bloke - I just also never said I was, indeed, a wummin either!!!
WHO cares...
...
get dictionary, look up Flash-in-the-pan you'll see obamas picture .End OF.
What the H--- does clooney know He's a LOUSY actor not an intelligensia Next thing we'll hear is obama is the king of Sun city.
Hi #37 thatscottishwoman, thanks for the news clip...
it won't completely influence me as I really don't believe half of the spin that they tend to put on some of these articles, although I do try to sift thru and glean truth where I can. I do like to read various news articles, from different perspectives. The election's a bit away yet.
(yours is the one to watch at this time!)
JG, ah, he can handle it; well, unless HC gets riled up!!
! She's got a great wit! :)
He/She will get my vote , Any color as long he/she is a Christian and Conservative.
glad to see the comments threads are back up, thank you Scotsman
Aoda, as usual well said. I just would like to see someone hand Hillary her lunch. I'm really tired of the Clinton lies and political machine.
I don't think Obama has the experience but we cannot afford Hillary with her mood swings. I want to see some others emerge to the front. As I have said before Hilary wakes up in the morning whets her finger and tests the wind to see what she will say that day.
She has no conviction and with Bill I question her morals. Carville is a ruthless nutter and will do anything for votes. He's smart but if you let him talk long enough he walks on his tongue; however you can't discount the Clinton Political Machine.
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